The Kiwi-Indian community has an important role to play as ambassadors for New Zealand to India, to help the bilateral relationship between the two countries move-on from the currently stalled talks on Free Trade Agreement (FTA), argues Simon Draper, the Executive Director, Asia New Zealand Foundation.
The Asia NZ Foundation is New Zealand's leading non-government authority on Asia engaged in the task of preparing New Zealanders to thrive in Asia.
Recently, Mr Draper was in India between April 23-25, leading a Track-II delegation of academicians and thought-leaders focusing on India and New Zealand.
The Indian Weekender spoke with Mr Draper about his visit to India and the seemingly collective obsession in both countries with FTA and the possibilities available avenues for advancing the bilateral relationship beyond the scope of FTA.
He spoke candidly about a range of issues around restricted view on the FTA in both countries. While India often tends to see FTAs as a zero-sum game, which is indeed a difficult position, New Zealand also appears to be too obsessed with the comfort and assuredness that comes with trading within FTAs as the only available avenue of promoting bilateral trade between the two countries.
Any trade is a good trade, with or without FTA, and probably negotiators and policy-makers on both the sides need to move towards this convergence.
Here are the excerpts of the interview.
Indian Weekender: Simon, we note that recently you were in India as a part of New Zealand’s Track II diplomatic engagement with India. Can you please tell us a little bit more about the nature of this visit?
Mr Draper: I was in New Delhi as Head of Delegation of what we call a Track II delegation. Our Track II (or informal diplomacy) programme is one of the ways the Asia New Zealand Foundation deepens connections with Asia and grows knowledge of the region.
Asia New Zealand Foundation Executive Director Simon Draper (right) presents a token of appreciation to Ambassador Nalin Surie (centre), Director General of the Indian Council of World Affairs, after their dialogue as Prof Sekhar Bandyopadhyay, Director of New Zealand India Research Institute, looks on
While we were in New Delhi, our delegation met and spoke with experts from leading think-tanks in India such as the Indian Council of World Affairs and Brookings India. Our purpose was to find out what drives New Delhi’s thinking on foreign, economic and social policies. We wanted to learn about India’s position on various international issues. We also wanted to help our Indian counterparts better understand where New Zealand sits on many of these issues. We were also interested in identifying possible areas of convergence.
Indian Weekender: How was your experience as a Wellingtonian of meandering in the scorching heat of India during this time of the year?
Mr Draper: It wasn’t that bad because we spent most of our time in meetings or briefings indoors under air-conditioning. The longest time we were outside was for the ANZAC Commemoration Dawn Service at the Delhi War Cemetery, and it was a comfortable 22 degrees for most of the morning.
Indian Weekender: According to you where does the current state of the bilateral relationship between New Zealand and India stand? Is the delay in signing an FTA a statement on the seemingly slow progress of the relationship between the two countries?
Mr Draper: Our FTA with India has essentially stalled. The last round of negotiations was back in 2015. It is a challenge to find commonality on the way forward. But trade is only one part of our relationship – and we are not doing too badly without an FTA. India is our 10th largest trading partner. There are many other areas where we can cooperate. That’s one of the purposes of our Track II visit — to find out those points of mutual benefit and convergence. And our dialogue identified areas of potential partnership such as in renewable energy, forestry and tourism.
We also need to convince Indian officials of the value of FTAs. For India’s negotiators, they seem to see FTAs as a zero-sum game, viewed in terms of the deficits that have resulted from their previous experience. New Zealand and indeed most international economists don’t view it that way. We think FTAs are win-wins –- it’s not just about market access, but improves things like competitiveness and can drive internal reforms. That is certainly our experience. It’s not about ‘market’ size otherwise New Zealand wouldn’t have FTAs with Australia, ASEAN, China and a range of others. And we also believe good ideas are not the sole preserve of large countries!
Indian Weekender: You and the Asia NZ Foundation have been regularly saying that the focus/thrust of the bilateral relationship between the two countries should be removed from FTA to people to people relations and the sectors of the economy other than the dairy? How far do you think this endeavour has been successful?
Mr Draper: Yes I have said New Zealand tends to measure our bilateral relationships using trade as a proxy. Trade is an easy measure. But I have said many times that our relationships including with India must go beyond trade.
There are other strands of the relationship — the other stuff such as culture, arts and sports, that are also important and that New Zealand should value more. For example, while we were in New Delhi, Trent Boult and the Delhi Daredevils were at the same hotel as us – as well as a couple of school teams from New Zealand.
On dairy, the concern seems to be that New Zealand will flood the Indian market. It is simply not the case. We never have with other FTA countries, plus we’re already pretty much at peak domestic production capacity. The future for New Zealand is investing offshore, exchanging technology, joint ventures and growing the local market. But we have not been able to convince the Indian bureaucracy of that.
In terms of the Foundation’s activities, we are a founding sponsor of the Diwali Festivals in Auckland and in Wellington, which has helped New Zealanders grow their awareness and knowledge of Indian cultural traditions.We have programmes that aim to deepen the people-to-people connections between our two countries, including the Track II programme. We send New Zealand artists to India for arts residencies. We send journalists on media internships to the Deccan Herald.We will soon have a business internship in India, which is a fantastic opportunity to have a first-hand experience of what it’s like to work there. So I would say the Foundation has had some success in this space but a lot more can be done.
So there’s a lot happening. But in the larger scheme of things, there are roughly 280 Indians for every Kiwi, so whatever we do in India tends to get lost as a drop in the ocean. And a lack of direct flights remains a challenge in terms of increasing the number of people-to-people links.
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